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 Finally a day at the range without issues

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LVJake7761

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PostSubject: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:46 pm

well wanted to head out and try out my new 174g .311 Match Kings but last night we had some pretty big storms roll through Vegas
I usually go to this spot north of the Vegas Valley but you have to cross a dry wash and with all the rain they had up north I didn't want to risk
getting stuck in the middle of nowhere by myself so I went down south to bolder city  bolder rifle and pistol club which I think I may join

here's the days setup

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anyway I could only get on a 50Y lane which was fine I was really just out there to do some load testing
got all set up and started my first string I was all over the place but had to zero my scope so that one was a wash
once I got zeroed my second string was my best

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2nd string  .616" 5 rounds avg MV 2225 fps
3rd string   .794" 5 rounds @ 2214 fps
4th string   1.059" 5 rounds @ 2228 fps would of been .585 but had a flyer on the 4th round pretty sure I pulled it
5th string   1" 5 rounds @ 2205 fps this would of been .5 but again with a 4th round flyer
6th string .98" 5 rounds @ 2237 fps this would of been .5 and another 4th round flyer


I also shot a few of the Barnes TSX FB .311 150g that I had left from last time
these sucked as far as groups
I wonder if the harmonics were coming into play here
the whole reason I cut my barrel to 22" was based on a 180g bullet
these were a lot faster but fast bullets don't mean squat if you cant hit anything

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also I'm a dumbass and shot 2 strings numbering them both #6 then after getting home I renumbered 7 to 8
and 8 to 9 but then i figured out and had 2 6's that's why the numbers were off



string 7 marked 8  2.461" 5 rounds @ 2708 fps
string 8 marker 9  1.487" 5 rounds @ 2712 fps

something else I was thinking about I remember seeing something on one of the other threads
someone asked about how far down the cartridge the soot from the powder came and I remember
looking at them as I shot my first rounds and I did have powder residue but only on the outside
of the necks not a lot but it was there
I'm curious what this means ?
maybe I need to change the way I resize my cases I usually do a full length resize and pop out the primer each time
and plan to anneal them this time around but I hear a lot about just neck sizing
but not too sure what this is
would it be a different die or can I set mine up to do it that way ? 

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anyway was a good day got some good data along with all my temps and barometric pressure data
and anything else I could think of so I can make up some good charts



also I'm going to change my targets PDF's  
I'm going to change the bold center and circle lines to maybe a double but thinner line so
its easier to see my hits through the scope


and my range sheets I see some changes I need to make there too
I really like being able to keep track of the placement of each shot but the thick lines are a problem
if you start getting tight groups its hard to mark them so a lighter line there will be helpful too


also when I mark them I'm just going to use a number to mark the hit
and maybe forget a lot of the upper data
I can put that on a separate sheet cause its pretty much the same for each load
so I'll just leave it as a box for load number then a box to mark the string and spaces for MV next to the target
that way I can get room for like 4 strings per sheet instead of 2


all my work on my gun paid off too my scope stayed in place and kept zero
new bolt handle and bolt polishing work eliminated any sticky bolt
I do think my handle is a little long but I really like the leverage
so until I see a reason to change it its going to stay
the new paint free mags gave me no feeding issues
only thing that would of made me happier was if I had loaded 100 rounds instead of just 50
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northumbrian

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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:56 am

Sounds like you had a productive day Smile
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SilverTip
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:29 pm

Well done. Smile   What was your powder loads?  Dont fret about the Barnes not grouping good. Yes, most likely harmonics. But all you have to do is change the load. Its amazing what a fraction of a grain can do sometimes.   Thats why it takes so much testing and data gathering. Because 46gr could suck. 47gr could be great. And 47.5gr could be mediocre.   

For the neck fouling, that usually means that the load is just light enough that the powder ignites, pushed the bullet out, and leaks backwards just a bit, before the case fully expands and seals the chamber. Usually an indicator that your rifle wants a little more charge for that round.

Neck sizing means just to size the neck, rather than the case. If your brass never sees other guns, definately do it! For all the effort you put into your gun, this one is a quick and easy advantage (whether slight or big).
I dont think you can neck size with a FL sizing die. You would need to pick up a neck sizing die. What die brand are you using? What sizing button do you have in the sizing die?

I like your targets alot. However, I never use targets with black on them anymore. It occured to me that im always trying to see a hole, on black. Really pain in the ass. Heres what I use now. I just slap a 1" orange circle on yellow plastic or white. And then cover the old groups with masking tape, or more orange stickers.
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LVJake7761

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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:54 pm

that makes sense about the black maybe I'll make more target PDF's in blue and red
just have to print with a color printer

still going to try the thinner lines for the same reason
my main problem was the sheets I was writing on I don't need thick lines on those
and when you start stacking rounds its really hard to see but then if you are stacking them
do you really need to know which one was which ?
either way I make these in AutoCAD so its easy to try different things
I've got a bunch of them
different types of grids of heads big sheets and little ones
even made up some dart boards lol

here's a head with a cross hair [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
here's a older version of the grid without the circles [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
here my Fav site in target with thinner lines [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
and the dart board [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


the gain load was 47.5 of IMR 4350 I was little disappointed by the speed 2127 fps avg for the day
going to check some of the load data that Santa brought me to see what my max is
put the numbers in my Ballistic XLR excel program last night and I got data out 600 - 800 yards
depending on the temp that's about my limit in the transonic zone I'd like the ability to shoot further
not that I will very often but this is such fun I'm sure I will want to eventually
cant imagine the gun getting a whole lot more accurate I think at this point I need to work on
my ability and technique


my reload stuff is all LEE I bought a lee challenger kit and a set of 7.62x54r dies going to look into
getting a neck resizing die I only use these rounds in my Mosin so I like the idea of not resizing
the whole cartridge every time maybe my brass will last longer going to anneal them this time  
most have been loaded 4 times now I do still have about 30 rounds I haven't loaded at all
been keeping them separate from the rest
thanks for all the good info this has just got more and more fun
I don't even take my AR out anymore lol
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LVJake7761

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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:30 pm

got my truck back yesterday so was able to get out this morning
back out to the 50y lane at boulder rifle and pistol club

I figured the 50y lane would give me better info on accurate rounds it would minimize the ME error factor
beside I didn't want to wait for 100y lane


anyway loaded a bunch of IMR4350 IMR4064 and Varget all with sierra matchkings 174g HPBT .311
I wanted to test a spread of loads in all three powders to try to narrow down a load I can stick with

IMR4350
the 47.5g load I found to be a very accurate load before and trying it again verifying it to be a good load 
after rezeroing my scope I had a string of .525" @50 yards with a MV of 2356.4fps
was a little faster than last time probably because it was a little warmer so I got a little faster burn rate with the powder

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but then I found a better load of this same powder of 48.5g shooting .438" @ 50y AVG MV 2431
both of these loads will be supersonic out to 900 yards @ 90* which is good but I want to reach out further
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next I went to IMR 4064 powder and the most accurate load with that powder was .666" @50y 45.7g avg mv 2731.5
this was the max loading with this powder no real signs of pressure except for my pucker problem
the primer pushed back but didn't deform the pucker problem is a consistent thing with my rifle
because of the hole for the firing pin its a bit round and I get this pucker on all my rounds no matter the load
anyway the speed was really good according to JBM ballistics this will remain supersonic out to 1100 yards @90* which
is what I've been looking for

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so then lastly I tried a spread of Varget powder my best group was at the min load for this one 43g
also best of the day if you don't count the flier I'm sure it was my fault I was getting tired by this time
.357" @50y with avg mv 2598 JBM said I'll be supersonic out to 1000yards @ 90* with this one
my other Varget strings were all over the place over an 1" @ 50y some I'm sure most were my fault
I was up to around 80 rounds at this point and my rifle was pretty hot
but I have hope with this powder but for now to be able to shoot 1000 yards with a minimum load I must say
I'm thrilled with the Varget


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had a blast shot 95 of the 100 rounds I took

I shot the rest of the 150g Barnes TXS bullets I had and had signs of excessive pressure I believe just under max load on those 46g of 4064
the primers pushed back and flattened out pretty good on the bolt and the primer pucker looked to be getting a sharp sort of fold to them
the max was at 48g and I didn't feel good about going any further with those (thanks to Silvertip when I saw that I knew to stop)
I didn't have much luck with accuracy on those best was .898" my guess is its a harmonics thing with the light bullets
I planed from the beginning to shoot 180g bullets that's why I cut my barrel to 22 inches


so all total I shot 95 rounds and got a little sunburned so was a good day
scope mount stayed put I believe I got that issue solved
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SilverTip
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:37 pm

Absolutely well done! shweet
Glad you collected some great data.
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LVJake7761

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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:34 pm

yes also glad I got two bottles of Varget

I was pretty wiped by the time I got to those also a bit hurried I was over my time
the range safety officer let me run long no one was waiting for the 50 yard lane
I felt kinda rushed there at the end so I may have just screwed up the last of my strings
that min load was soo good then they just went to hell
the Varget loads went from 43g to 44g,45g,46g and max at 46.5g max speed of 2738.8fps
I am going to test the Varget more to see if it was me or if that really is the best load of that one
but really I'm happy with a speed of 2598fps if thats the most accurate i'll stick with that one

I was kinda surprised by the change in speed just from different powders
why do I get more speed with less pressure issues ?
would seem that more powder = more speed but I guess its a lot more completed then that
I got to read more of that lyman book you were right theres a lot more info in there then in the
hornady book
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LVJake7761

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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:04 pm

back out to the bolder city range Saturday
wanted to confirm my loads with Varget powder 
laddered a spread in 1/2 grain steps and came up with two loads that were very good
the minimum load I found last time again shot very nice 43g Varget about 1/2" at 75 yards
also found what might be a better load with 44 1/2g Varget about 7/16" at 75 yards
speed was off on all my loads most likely ammo temp was a bit colder this time
but still I like this combination so got home and loaded 100 rounds of the 43g
think I'm going to stick with that one at least until I get in the mood to do more load developing
got my 12 inch AR500 gong today might have to go out to the desert this weekend to ring that sucker
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:07 pm

Sweet! Good to hear. Smile  Take a video of the gong shootin if you can Very Happy

What size is your expander ball on your sizing die?
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LVJake7761

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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:11 pm

not sure I got the RCB #29002 neck die for 7.62x54r ran the new brass both before and after with it and
it worked really nice
it came with another die also that I haven't figured out what its for yet but I will

just used it stock
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:22 pm

Ok. I think the RCBS 54r die usually comes with 2 different sizing buttons. Was just curious what your neck tension was, by what button you were using.
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LVJake7761

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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:29 pm

oh there is a little thing in a bag that came with it I didn't know what it was let me find the paperwork
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:55 pm

ok this second die is another bullet seating die
the loose sizer  mic's at .284 not sure what is in the neck die I figured this was a extra of the same size
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:12 pm

Looking good. I hope to be able to get some target shooting in next weekend. Just got the two hex's in and the receivers for my projects. Hoping to get two bull barrel target rifles for me and my brother going and one set up for the wife with a thumbhole stock. She liked the Boyd with high gloss violet/black. I am working on cleaning up the recievers. I figured I would slug the barrels, learned about that here, and keep the two closest to .311. Now just have to collect the rest of the parts and some more tools.  Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:21 pm

2nd try for the pic.  
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:58 pm

Dang! I need some of those! thumb
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LVJake7761

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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:30 am

I was just thinking that too love to get a M44 carbine and keep it stock maybe a scout scope
no regrets about sportizering my 91/30 would just like to have another all stock but shorter
I didn't like how long my 91/30 was it had 28 3/4" long barrel
if I get another it will be a M44 I really like that rifle

took mine out today ran a box of 50 through it all loaded the same
43g Varget 174g HPBT was anal about these weighted out every load down to the 10th of a grain
they were as close to the same as I could make them
got all my temp, barometer and direction data too
going to use this to try some of these ballistic software programs and make up some charts
then I can go out and confirm them with my new gong got a 12" and a 3" x 1/2" AR500
using a rebar target stand to make it easier to tote out in the desert about the best setup I can find

wont be around the next week heading out this morning to valley of fire to go camping for the holidays with friends
you guys have a good thanksgiving
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:06 am

You to Jake.  That sounds like an awesome time!
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:26 am

well finaly got back out to the desert with some friends to try out the Gongs also shot a video of it
took me a bit to figure out how edit it down to just the shots we did more bullshitting than shooting lol
heres the video edited to just the shots moves pretty quick this was my first try at makeing a video

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this is me shooting a 12" and a 3" x 1/2" AR500 gongs @ 300 Yards
174 MK .311 with 43g Varget

once i got my zero again i could hit even the 3" gong almost at will
had a ball untill it started raining and sent us home
next time going to 400 Yards
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:14 pm

LOL! awesome shooting. Sounds like you guys had a blast! arrgggg
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:36 pm

Very nice! shweet
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:15 am

took the M44 out for a shakedown
wow its a nice shooter couldn't even see the dam gong with no scope
so lobbed some that way didn't hit shit though

this video is just the hits on the 12 inch and 1 hit on the 3 inch gong @ 400 yards
I had the camera right behind the shooter to try to get the vapor trail
some are better then others and the loss in video quality didn't help
but I'll work on it
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PostSubject: Re: Finally a day at the range without issues   Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:42 am

shweet  Awesome great job!
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