Welcome to Mosinitus. The Mosin Nagant Builders Forum
Welcome to Mosinitus. The Mosin Nagant Builders Forum

This forum is geared toward the 54r shooter who constantly strives for more accuracy. You will never be chastised or banned for your opinions. Whether you like to collect, or modify these rifles, the path is yours.
 
HomeHome  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  Make a Donation to Mosinitus hereMake a Donation to Mosinitus here  

Share | 
 

 Learning Quickload

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
LVJake7761

avatar

Posts : 149
Karma : 6
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Las Vegas, NV

PostSubject: Learning Quickload   Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:36 pm

Two weeks ago I went out load testing looking for a hunting bullet
So I bought a box of 150g Sierra ProHunters .311 looked up data for Varget
And made up 5 strings of 5 rounds stepping up to max

First I shot some of my load #32 which is my accurate long distance load 174g MatchKings
To warm the barrel up (I’m limited on time at the boulder range so I warmed the barrel first so all rounds are shot from a hot gun to try to take temp out of my data)

One of the test loadings my #34-4 was 49.6g Varget and wow
Without the flyer that I’m pretty sure I pulled I shot a keyhole in the target of
4 rounds at .425” @ 100yards
But looking at my 174g MatchKing target I wasn’t even close to that which bummed me out

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />
(Didn’t save the match king target)

I’ve been kicking around getting that Quickload Software and this gave me reason

Now I’m still learning this thing so I’m not ready to use it to work up a new powder yet
But in messing with it I sat down with all the data on the loads I shot two weeks ago
And found some interesting stuff

I made accurate measurements of my barrel length 21.9375”
And also Quickload needs Maximum case capacity in h20 information which you get from measuring
How much water the fire formed brass case with primer intact holds mine was 66.5g

I enter this information and it gives back a lot of head spinning data for the load
One of the things is called “barrel time” and I started looking into this I found this site
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It’s about shock wave theory and “barrel time”
Basically the idea here is that a rifle barrel acts like tuning fork when a round is touched off
It vibrates in a wave pattern that is a constant for that length of barrel so it’s predictable
And that means you can use it to sort of tune your cartridge for accuracy
The paper links to a excel file to predict the nodes of the vibration of a length of barrel

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

Now the idea here is to time the bullet to leave the barrel at a node
Which is the most stable part of the vibration of the barrel

Quickload will tell you how long it takes for that bullet to travel the length of the barrel
Because you enter the exact length of barrel for this rifle
Back to my load #34-4 that I thought was so accurate
Quickload says it takes 1.195 milliseconds to exit
The “Optimal Barrel Time” excel file tells me there’s a node #6 @ 1.198ms so just by dumb luck
I almost hit that node right on the head and this is why I key holed those round’s

Something else I think is cool about this program
Is now that I know I have a node at 1.198ms Quickload will compare other powders that can equal
This barrel time safely and list them according to muzzle velocity so I can print this out
And take it with me to the store when buying powder so I can make the best choice I can at the time
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />




So now I have to workup data to get my 174g Match Kings better once I’m comfortable in using this
By testing the data I get from a powder I’m comfortable with I’m going to go for it
Just bought 2 lbs. of Norma MRP powder for my match kings that I’m all goose pimply about
My 3 inch gong is in trouble once I get this worked out
Back to top Go down
LVJake7761

avatar

Posts : 149
Karma : 6
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Las Vegas, NV

PostSubject: Re: Learning Quickload   Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:05 am

Ok so working up some data on my #32 load 174g MatchKing with 53.7g H4350 @ 80*
Quickload confirms that I miss all my nodes with a BT of 1.213ms
I can tweak my load but first being that it’s now summer here first I’ll adjust the temperature
If I was to go shooting tomorrow morning it would be around 105* so I adjust that and my BT
Changes to 1.190ms that’s getting close but I can do better by dropping to 53.5g @ 1.196ms

Going to try loading some of these
There actually .2 grains lighter then what I was using
This makes sense because I tested this load over the winter when it was cooler here
It seems the change in temp is what messed up my accuracy with this load
If I can confirm this then I’ll start feeling better about trying to work up my new Norma MRP powder

My first look at the Norma MRP tells me for a 105* day I should use 60g Norma MRP that
Will give me a BT of 1.197ms that’s .001ms off my node almost perfect my MV will be 2714fps
With that speed I can shoot supersonic out to almost 1200 yards and if I find pressure signs
I can back off to 56.6g with a BT of 1.311ms again .001 off my node
Speed suffers a little at 2537fps but that’s still good to over 1000yards

Dam I’m loving this program
Back to top Go down
SilverTip
Admin
avatar

Posts : 566
Karma : 18
Join date : 2011-10-29
Age : 102

PostSubject: Re: Learning Quickload   Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:26 pm

Awesome man! Cant wait to get the time to read all this info you have. Smile thumb
Back to top Go down
http://mosinitus.americantalk.net
LVJake7761

avatar

Posts : 149
Karma : 6
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Las Vegas, NV

PostSubject: Re: Learning Quickload   Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:03 pm

was out over the weekend didn't crony the rounds that I shot was more a fun outing but
the test rounds I shot looked good all but the 180g ProHunters with the new Norma MRP powder
I was trying to hit node 6 in the timing cycle

I started seeing soot on the primers as I got up in my powder charge
not sure if my pucker problem made for a small split in the primer
but that's what I'm thinking it is so I'm going to load the next set with a lower charge
to hit node 7 I'll loose some speed but until I get the pucker problem fixed I don't want to
push it

I was happy though shooting 500 yards shooting my old #32 load
I tried reading the mirage to get a feel for wind looked up 500y in my drop charts
and made a first round cold bore hit on the 12" gong about 2" high I figure that was caused
because I used my charts for 70deg and it was almost 90deg when I shot it
so my speed was up a bit still cant hit the dam 3" at 500 but I did hit the 1/4" flag pole
and the 3" mounting chain it was pretty windy though but I am encouraged

also took my first NRA reloading class over the weekend learned allot
a lot of the stuff I already knew but was really nice to be able to ask questions with someone
who knows
can only learn so much from reading books and watching videos
Back to top Go down
SilverTip
Admin
avatar

Posts : 566
Karma : 18
Join date : 2011-10-29
Age : 102

PostSubject: Re: Learning Quickload   Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:40 pm

Thats some great work. Exactly how ive been told the Barrel Time method should work. shweet
Back to top Go down
http://mosinitus.americantalk.net
LVJake7761

avatar

Posts : 149
Karma : 6
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Las Vegas, NV

PostSubject: Re: Learning Quickload   Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:13 pm

Update
went out the other day to do some testing of this new powder (new to me ) Norma MRP
according to Quickload these are the top 10 powders for the 7.62x54r shooting a 174g bullet

1-Alliant Reloader-26
2-Norma 217
3-ReloadSwiss RS 60
4-Norma MRP
5-Somchem S365
6-Alliant Reloader-23
7-ReloadSwiss RS 62
8-Elcho 17
9-Alliant Reloader 17
10-Accurate 4350

Norma MRP is what I found at a local Sportsman Warehouse so that's what I'm working with

Anyway I went out a few weeks ago after using Quickload to try to find Node 7 in my Harmonic Wave
I was looking for accuracy not speed I didn't want to push my limits with Quickload just yet I was still learning
according to the optimal barrel time chart Node 7 for my 21.9375" Barrel is 1.312ms
I also adjusted my load for 100* temp for that day
I loaded a ladder test of 5 sets of 10 rounds
Load A 8% low
Load B 6% low
up to Load E being my Ideal Load
instead of my test results showing the E load 1.312ms as being most accurate
it was my A load 1.453ms that was best
A is the 8% low Load and farthest from my ideal barrel time  I was perplexed

in the process of trying to figure out what went wrong I decided to redo my camo again
I just wasn't happy with my last pattern and I began looking for new ideas then settled on one
then broke down the gun to strip the old paint off when I noticed some slight rub marks
right where the site block is on the archangel stock
here when I first floated the barrel I floated back to the site block
I guess it looked like it was meant to be there so that where I stopped
so with something touching my barrel it disturbed my barrel harmonics
at least that's what I was hoping so I got out my dremel tool and went to relieving plastic
I also added to my recoil lug bedding to make sure everything was solid
then repainted it again

so now a few days ago I'm ready to test again I had a box already loaded for 90* being cooler this week
I had numbered these before changing my number system so these are load #42-2
again I loaded a ladder test of 5 sets of 10 rounds
Load A 8% low
Load B 6% low
up to Load E being my Ideal Load
this time I believe I hit my Node right on with my E load being my best of the day grouping .566" @ 100y
I did pull shot #4 and wrote it down when I did it but the other 4 shots I can cover with a quarter
for 100 yards with a 10 mph wind I'm happy with this
also Quickload projected my MV @ 2528fps my first set 5 round Avg MV was 2523.2fps
my second set Avg was 2523.25fps (2nd set not as accurate but wind had picked up a lot so not counting accuracy)
I'm calling this dead on as far as Quickload projecting my data for the day

I'm really beginning to like Quickload its taken some time and a bit of studying to get it tweaked just right
but I'm feeling very confident in it now at least with this powder and bullet combo
you have to get all your rifle data and fire formed case data as accurate as possible
and then tweak your powder burn rate factor so you can predict a load that you already have data on
once you can do that then working up a new load I feel is very obtainable

now for me I want to find Node 6

Breakdown for the day

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
String Sheet
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Target Sheet
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Quickload Charge Variation Sheet
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

new camo still may change the barrel just bought an airbrush so I'm sure this is not really finished
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
SilverTip
Admin
avatar

Posts : 566
Karma : 18
Join date : 2011-10-29
Age : 102

PostSubject: Re: Learning Quickload   Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:19 pm

Excellent! Ya, that quickload is amazing me to.
Nice paint shweet
Back to top Go down
http://mosinitus.americantalk.net
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Learning Quickload   

Back to top Go down
 
Learning Quickload
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Learning Spanish from a kid with dyslexia. [p r i v a t e]
» signet of learning?
» signet of learning not working?
» Sale/Lotto/Coupon Alert Thread
» Sweets and Cakes (everyone welcome)

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Welcome to Mosinitus. The Mosin Nagant Builders Forum :: All about 54r Reloading Ammo!-
Jump to: