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 Woodleigh 174 & 215's

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Will Hunt

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PostSubject: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:02 am

Been using the 215 grain RN's in a custom barreled Pattern 14 chambered in 303 Epps. Great results, game hate them but not for long.
So I am now thinking of a Lothar Walther barrel for my Mosin. I do believe that for now the standard 7.62X54R cartridge is what I will go with (though the improved version I am sure will be in my future too) and with a 1 in 10 twist shooting the 174 PP bullet and 174 HPBT MatchKing.
Any comments or suggestions on twist rate are welcome.
Thanks!
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SilverTip
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PostSubject: Re: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:24 pm

You should have great results for a LW barrel. This guy has one on his Improved, and its great.

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Will Hunt

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PostSubject: Re: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:30 pm

Thanks! I did pm you about a donation.
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LVJake7761

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PostSubject: Re: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:12 am

JBM Ballistics has a bunch of Calculators one being a Stability Calculator put in your info and it will calculate your miller stability factor 
it will help pick a twist rate / bullet combination 
there is a ton of other stuff to play with too

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Will Hunt

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PostSubject: Re: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:02 am

I appreciate the help!
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Will Hunt

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PostSubject: Re: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:43 am

Not sitting on the porch but have not yet decided on a fluted or non fluted barrel. Pros and cons are a wash.
Fluting=more cooling surface, a smige lighter and looks pretty neat.
Non-fluting=heavier, bigger looks better.
I do know that it will be a 26"er.
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PostSubject: Re: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:09 pm

i would think the question is do you plan on humping this around hunting?
little bit of weight could get big if terrain gets bad
question is at what point does the weight out weigh the cost of getting it fluted?
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PostSubject: Re: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:35 pm

I grin a little when someone takes a bull barrel, and flutes it. The loss in rigidity is not replaced by anything useful. Other than cool looking flutes. Ill admit some of them nowdays, look SUPER COOL. 

Cons:
The 'cooling' effect is of no use unless you are building a machine gun. And even then, the science of flutes to facilitate any meaningful cooling, would truly warp the barrel as it cooled unevenly. Not a permanent warp probably, but nothing good for accuracy either.

Additionally, Ive heard it said that a bull barrel that is fluted, only has the rigidity of the minimum dia of the barrel at the deepest part of the flutes. Its known that thicker barrels are more rigid, and lend themselves to accuracy much more easily. Thats not to say pencil thin barrels cant be accurate. Its just all about the 'barrel whip' and how pronounced it is. Thats basically what any shooter is fighting against.... well among other things i reckon. With a more rigid barrel, (from my experience) less work is required to create "THE" accurate load. Because the barrel whip is so much less.

Plus the thicker steel of the bull barrel requires many more shots to 'over heat'.

Pros: Fluted barrels are lighter. lol This one might sound like a "Pro" but really its a con imo. Because since a 1" barrel fluted to 1/4" depth is only as rigid as a 0.5"dia  barrel, you just paid alot of money for a 0.5" barrel.  So now you have much more pronounced barrel whip, and more weight to carry, and have to modify the rifle stock, when you could have just ordered a sporter barrel.


And one more con. If a criminal gets a moment alone with your gun safe, and can only grab one gun in a hurry, which one they gonna grab? The big heavy barrel one, or the cool shiny tactical fluted one. I know, thats a pretty lame 'con'. But still...... 


But anyways, theres no doubt you can flute anything, and find the load it loves. And they look cool and have higher resale value.
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Will Hunt

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PostSubject: Re: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:56 pm

I suppose I ought to just flip a coin and be done with it.
My lightest hunting rifle is 7 pounds 8 ounces and the heaviest is just over 12 pounds so weight is not an issue.
Neither am I concerned with overheating the barrel as I do not expect to be repelling any invading or attacking horde. My family and I have firearms for that job already.
I do not know if this is a statement made with pride but my firearms look like the working mans guns and none to pretty. Though they are absolutely 100% functional. So if a criminal were to see my firearms he/she may take pity on me and leave a me pretty one rofl.
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PostSubject: Re: Woodleigh 174 & 215's   Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:21 am

There are some people in the shooting community that do believe fluting affects a barrel’s accuracy in a negative way. In fact, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] refuses to flute their barrels. Here is what they say on the topic:
Quote :
Fluting is a service we neither offer nor recommend. If you have a Shilen barrel fluted, the warranty is void. Fluting a barrel can induce unrecoverable stresses that will encourage warping when heated and can also swell the bore dimensions, causing loose spots in the bore. A solid (un-fluted) barrel is more rigid than a fluted barrel of equal diameter. A fluted barrel is more rigid than a solid barrel of equal weight. All rifle barrels flex when fired. Accuracy requires that they simply flex the same and return the same each time they are fired, hence the requirement for a pillar bedded action and free floating barrel. The unrecoverable stresses that fluting can induce will cause the barrel to flex differently or not return from the flexing without cooling down a major amount. This is usually longer than a shooter has to wait for the next shot. The claim of the flutes helping to wick heat away faster is true, but the benefit of the flutes is not recognizable in this regard until the barrel is already too hot.




an article written by Tom Beckstrand in the 2013 edition of SNIPER magazine summarizes some tests that [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] performed to determine whether fluting a barrel affected accuracy. Here is an excerpt from that article:
Quote :
One design change that resulted from AI’s exhaustive accuracy testing and development of the PSR [Precision Sniper Rifle] is the removal of flutes from the barrels. Engineers at AI decided to isolate the barrel flutes to see what impact they had on accuracy. The engineers attached a laser to the rifle’s receiver, another to the barrel, and a third to the scope. All three dots were zeroed at the same point, then they started shooting the rifle. They discovered that, no matter which fluted barrel they used, the dots would diverge as the barrel heated. The dots from the devices mounted to the scope and the receiver would stay in place, but the barrel’s device would manifest a point-of-impact (POI) shift. The POI shift from the warming barrel greatly diminished when they used barrels without flutes.
Engineers determined that the flutes never heated evenly, causing the POI shift. I hope the results of this test gain wide circulation through the sniper and long-range shooting communities to help eliminate some of the ignorance that surrounds the perceived advantages of barrel flutes. Flutes are great for shaving weight, but this is the first test I’ve heard that provided empirical data detailing what happens when the barrel is fluted. This should be the death of the “they cool a barrel faster, so they’re more accurate” argument, listed among flutes’ virtues. Our goal is and should always be to mitigate the effects of heat; fluting exacerbates it.


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