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 Substitute for a barrel vice??

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livetooextreme
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PostSubject: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:30 am

Do I need a "real" barrel vice in order to take a barrel off of a mosi nagant 91/30? Are there any other ways to rig a make-shift barrel vice that will handle the torque required and not mar the barrel?

Trey
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mogunner
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:28 am

Not really... you are talking well over 500 pounds of torque to bust one loose and 200 to reinstall one. I see one that looks like it would work well on ebay, usually around $80 for the barrel vise, which fits other makes and models as well, and action wrenches around the same price, one for round receivers and one for hex. I am in the middle of replacing a barrel on a T53, I just cut the old sewer pipe barrel off close to the receiver, heated it what was left with a propane torch and got lucky and it busted loose after a couple hits with a hammer and chisel, would be easy to mess up the receiver that way though. I'm going to make an action wrench for reinstalling the replacement barrel though, don't want to mess anything up, and I'm just going to machine out a tapered spacer to hold the barrel in my standard vise since I doubt that I'll ever do this again for awhile at least.
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SilverTip
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:09 am

I have these and they are great. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ive seen these used with great success also.
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If you buy one, and not worried bout keepin it, stick it in the forsale section here. I'll prolly buy it if no one else does.
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jamesrich



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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:59 am

I has seen people make vise jaws from oak blocks with a channel cut for the barrel. The oak holds the barrel pretty well.
I made my own with two pieces of 1 1/2 square stock. I drilled and bolted them together then bored a hole in between both of them. Then made aluminum bushing halves for different barrels.
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mogunner
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:10 am

I was sitting here today machining on the next batch of mosin sight tools, when my eye caught upon a discarded blank lying at the back of the bench, one of the prototype ones that I didn't care for and just tossed there and left. IMHO the material at the bottom of the thing wasn't as thick as what I wanted so I went and redesigned it. Anyways, here I had this chunk of aluminum with a 3/4" hole in it and a slot cut in the top..I picked up a 91/30 cut receiver and chunk of barrel, slid the tool onto the barrel then chucked it into the vise and tightened it down on the tool. Didn't take a lot of pressure before I couldn't turn the receiver stub at all, although I didn't try and actually remove it as this is just an old stub that's been lying out in the shop for around a year. I do, however, think that this will work fine as a barrel vise for installing the replacement barrel on my T53, I still have to make the action wrench as well, which will also be a "light duty" since I'll only be going to around 200 ft lbs. with the thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:53 am

mogunner wrote:
I was sitting here today machining on the next batch of mosin sight tools, when my eye caught upon a discarded blank lying at the back of the bench, one of the prototype ones that I didn't care for and just tossed there and left. IMHO the material at the bottom of the thing wasn't as thick as what I wanted so I went and redesigned it. Anyways, here I had this chunk of aluminum with a 3/4" hole in it and a slot cut in the top..I picked up a 91/30 cut receiver and chunk of barrel, slid the tool onto the barrel then chucked it into the vise and tightened it down on the tool. Didn't take a lot of pressure before I couldn't turn the receiver stub at all, although I didn't try and actually remove it as this is just an old stub that's been lying out in the shop for around a year. I do, however, think that this will work fine as a barrel vise for installing the replacement barrel on my T53, I still have to make the action wrench as well, which will also be a "light duty" since I'll only be going to around 200 ft lbs. with the thing.


Pics or it never happened. Razz
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jamesrich



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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:59 am

The action wrench I made is some more of the 1 1/2 square stock. I turned it round on one end and for a handle. I bolted another piece of square stock to the end with a V notch cut in it. It's simple but works on everything I have tried so far. Mausers, Remington 700, and both round and hex nagants. I will have to get pic for you guys but there are at my Dads house. I don't have a shop at home.

James
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:40 am

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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:55 am

Hot damn! That looks nice!
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jamesrich



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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:43 am

so you hold the barrel after the sight. Doesn't the torsional twist of the barrel make it harder to break loose? I made a slightly tapered bushing for mine and grab it right next to the receiver. Sometimes it slips and I have to add paper between the bushings. After the sight would be alot easier.

James
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:45 am

This is actually a front sight tool that I make and sell for Mosin's, this one was a trial run for the wartime M44. I decided I wanted a little bit more metal on the bottom so this one was just tossed to the back of the bench. If I were using this to remove the barrel on a 91/30, I would mill the slot out a tad but more so it would slide down the sides of the dovetail, giving it something more to bite in to as well. I haven't tried it on the M44 barrel that I need to install yet, but if nothing else I can just make one with the difference in I.D. These could theoretically be "stacked" in the vise, this one is 3/4" which is my light duty sight tool, I also make them in 1" so have that available as well.

For the slipping, try powdered rosin on the barrel before putting it in the vise, you can find it in any store that carries bowling supplies in a little "shake" bag.


Last edited by mogunner on Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Cuz I thought of more to say and din't want to make another post....)
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:08 am

When you get that part lined out Mo, and basically have yourself a viable clamping tool, take some measurements and photos, and we can make a sticky of it for others to model after.
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:24 pm

I finally got some pics of my barrel vise and receiver wrench I made. My Dads shop is a disaster!

The barrel vise, made from 1 1/2 square bar. The bushing halves are aluminum. I made bushings for large ring mausers too.

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With an old barreled receiver clamped in it.

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This is the receiver wrench which is pretty much universal. I've used it on mausers and a remington 700.

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Clamped on an old round nagant receiver, but it works perfect on hex receivers too.

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James
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:42 pm

Pretty sweet! I probably ought to go ahead and make me a set, but if I do I'll probably never need them. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:55 am

Damn good job. Is that machine a Smithy!?
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:07 am

SilverTip wrote:
Damn good job. Is that machine a Smithy!?

No it's from harbor freight. After working on good machines my opinion of this one is it's a piece of crap. I need to thread a barrel on a nagant project to put a AMD 65 muzzle brake on it but I don't trust this thing to make a left hand metric thread.

James
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:33 am

Most of my stuff is from Harbor Freight as well...I'm just too poor to afford the good stuff. Their stuff "works" but often requires tinkering with or a bit of adapting to get it to do a decent job, that's just the price for buying the low-end stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:49 am

A little secret ive learned lately. With nearly all our manufacturing going to China, and people thinking that a 'Degree' is the be all end all of manufacturing, schools have been shutting down their machining class's and selling off their machines at basically scrap prices for the past decade or more.

I only just caught on to this, but its a GREAT source of great machinery. I have a lathe and a surface grinder each from a different highschool. $800 and $600.

The technological advancements shouldnt also be over looked I guess. But I like to blame china as much as I can. Smile
When my grandkids are ready for equipment for their garages, they will be buying old CNC's for the same prices. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 am

Yes the machine does work but it has tight spots in both axis like something is bent and it was like this since it was new. The reason I don't want to use it to thread my barrel is sometimes the thread engagement lever gets stuck engaged, that could crew my project up real good if it don't stop when I need it to. One time I was milling with it and when the endmill got off the end of the part it lifted the whole bed about 1/4". I guess that was my fault for climb milling but that gives a better finish.

I may try using it anyway for my muzzle break. I need left hand threads so I should be able to make it thread coming off the part. That way if it doesn't disengage right away I wont hit the shoulder.

James
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:15 am

I bought this stuff at Walmart that I use to lube up all the moving parts on my Harbor Freight machines, it comes in a spray can and was in the motorcycle aisle and is for chains. Its a teflon/moly based spray lube that you hose down the part and let it dry for 30 minutes before reassembling or using. I had problems with the aluminum dust/chips sticking to the threads on the cross-bolts on my milling vise and knew better than to try and use a regular lube but figured what the heck. It was about $7 and change if I remember. I now won't use anything else... I did the slides and bolts on the vise almost a month ago and it's still nice and smooth cranking back and forth. I used it on the table as well as on the blade of the horizontal band saw that I just bought from them, and the chips come off the blade way before it even gets close to the guide rollers, and the clamp for the stock moves so easily you can run it across with just a finger on the crank. I put my PB Blaster and W40 back on the shelf for anything other than penetrating now... WELL worth the money and I was amazed at the performance, I think every machine shop should have this stuff on the shelf, I even sprayed my end mills and it made a heck of a difference in how the chips clean out of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:22 am

mogunner wrote:
I bought this stuff at Walmart that I use to lube up all the moving parts on my Harbor Freight machines, it comes in a spray can and was in the motorcycle aisle and is for chains. Its a teflon/moly based spray lube that you hose down the part and let it dry for 30 minutes before reassembling or using. I had problems with the aluminum dust/chips sticking to the threads on the cross-bolts on my milling vise and knew better than to try and use a regular lube but figured what the heck. It was about $7 and change if I remember. I now won't use anything else... I did the slides and bolts on the vise almost a month ago and it's still nice and smooth cranking back and forth. I used it on the table as well as on the blade of the horizontal band saw that I just bought from them, and the chips come off the blade way before it even gets close to the guide rollers, and the clamp for the stock moves so easily you can run it across with just a finger on the crank. I put my PB Blaster and W40 back on the shelf for anything other than penetrating now... WELL worth the money and I was amazed at the performance, I think every machine shop should have this stuff on the shelf, I even sprayed my end mills and it made a heck of a difference in how the chips clean out of them.

Awesome! And its called...?........ [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

My shop sweats real bad. I went out there the other day and my headstock on the lathe, and all the handles on the grinder are orange. Sad I was just trying to come up with something. I was gonna black oxide everything.
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:20 pm

Well, it's in the motorcycle section, and it's called chain lube... it's like the only thing of that type there at least at my Walmart!
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:16 am

SilverTip wrote:
I have these and they are great. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ive seen these used with great success also.
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If you buy one, and not worried bout keepin it, stick it in the forsale section here. I'll prolly buy it if no one else does.

The Accu-grip barrel vise from Brownells says it's for AR-15/M16s - will it also work for 91/30s?
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:23 am

livetooextreme wrote:
SilverTip wrote:
I have these and they are great. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ive seen these used with great success also.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If you buy one, and not worried bout keepin it, stick it in the forsale section here. I'll prolly buy it if no one else does.

The Accu-grip barrel vise from Brownells says it's for AR-15/M16s - will it also work for 91/30s?

It worked for me like a charm. The only down side is the Mosin barrel is tapered, where as the Accugrip is not. But the mosin barrel is a slight enough taper that it worked great for me. I dont know of a better all around vice (vice jaws) that are tapered properly. Or I would recommend those.
Throw some bakin soda or something in there for extra traction. Let us know how it goes! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:50 pm

So I need a barrel vise to remove a barrel from a Mosin Nagant and wasn't happy paying what some want for one. So I built my own version of a Wheeler vise for around $25 bucks.

Materials
1 10"x2"x1" bar stock
1 8"x2"x1" bar stock
1 CR80 front shock spring cut in half then both ends cut down to 4"
2 6.5"x3/4" bolts with washers and nuts
1 scrap 3'x3"x1" piece of oak
oh and 1 can of wally world lubricant


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It came togeter pretty easy with exception of cutting the bar with my chop saw and drilling the 3/4" holes, that was slow going on my 12" Craftsman drill press.
For the barrel blocks, I cut and jointed some oak from a broken pallet we had at my work. Cut it down too 3"x3"x1" blocks and glued them together too make 3"x3"x2". Now just need to drill my hole cut in half and shape to fit the tapper of the barrel.
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:34 am

Excellent work!
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:34 pm

there's also a company called CNC Warrior they sell a barrel threading kit for putting on a muzzle break this is what I used to thread mine for the Witt Machine brake I used
its got a starter die in the kit that slips in the bore then you thread the die on the threaded end it get you going strait before you touch the end of the barrel
Witt Mfg couldn't of been nicer
after I placed my order changed my mind about the thread he caught the guy that was going to the mailbox and swapped it out for me even offered to send a new one now if he missed the guy
totally impressed with there service and love the brake not real big and heavy but solid and has some small ports on top to keep the barrel from rising
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for a barrel vice??   Thu May 26, 2016 12:04 am

BigD wrote:
So I need a barrel vise to remove a barrel from a Mosin Nagant and wasn't happy paying what some want for one. So I built my own version of a Wheeler vise for around $25 bucks.

Materials
1 10"x2"x1" bar stock
1 8"x2"x1" bar stock
1 CR80 front shock spring cut in half then both ends cut down to 4"
2 6.5"x3/4" bolts with washers and nuts
1 scrap 3'x3"x1" piece of oak
oh and 1 can of wally world lubricant


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[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


It came togeter pretty easy with exception of cutting the bar with my chop saw and drilling the 3/4" holes, that was slow going on my 12" Craftsman drill press.
For the barrel blocks, I cut and jointed some oak from a broken pallet we had at my work. Cut it down too 3"x3"x1" blocks and glued them together too make 3"x3"x2". Now just need to drill my hole cut in half and shape to fit the tapper of the barrel.

I know this is an old post but, Big D do you have any pix with it in use?
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