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 Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.

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Stash



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PostSubject: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:20 pm

I am very glad to have stumbled upon this site. I am retired and getting into gunsmithing as a hobby. I have a full machine shop in my barn, but not all the info needed to get the most out of my Mosins. I have a 1935 Russian 91/30 and a mid '40's Finnish M39. I plan on annoying the heck out of all of you with goofy questions, and wanted to apologize in advance. My main interest is in the doing of the work. I can't shoot well, but a day without humiliation is like a day without sunshine. My attitude is, funny is good. Thanks. See you around.
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SilverTip
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:42 pm

Hey! Welcome aboard! Dont worry about being annoying with questions. Im actually putting together a machine shop in my garage, so im gonna have a bunch of questions for you! HA!

Those 39's are great pieces! How well does it shoot?
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:08 pm

How well does it shoot? Well, when I put in one of those snap cap things and pull the trigger, it makes a satisfying clicking sound. So far, so good.
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:15 pm

Oh man! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Randy

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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:31 pm

Stash wrote:
How well does it shoot? Well, when I put in one of those snap cap things and pull the trigger, it makes a satisfying clicking sound. So far, so good.

My kind of answer!!! I love it!! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Welcome ! There isn't much going on here for now since it's a fairly new site but hopefully as more and more folks learn about it it will keep growing. I'm not (far from) (not even in the ballpark) (fairly moronic about it) very knowledgeable about Mosins but I can figure most things that aren't technical in nature out pretty much all by myself with only a little help from everyone else most times. Shocked Cool Wink

Right now, I too am self-unemployed and independently worthless at the age of 55.

Which means I have plenty of time on my hands too. Except for wasting my time in college. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:06 am

+1 to what Randy said. And I dont think Randy even owns a mosin, but I dont care. He's smart as hell. Plus he likes to over analyze things like me. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I dont expect this site to take off fast, or even get big. Im just tired of searching my ass off for great reloading, gunsmithing, mod'ing, and accuracy data for the Mosins. I have plenty of loadin manuals. But I kinda would like that narrowed down by real world, multi user experiences. Plus, the bull barrel mosins I think are gonna be the hot ticket to 10ring town. So I want to compile my efforts and data in one place that isnt already cluttered. To help others.

And here, you get to cuss!!
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Randy

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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:24 am

Aww Shucks Embarassed Suspect LIES, ALL LIES!!! Wink

Yes I do have a Mosin. It's only a plain jane though. Nothing collectible. Sorta thinkin I got it posted around heres sumairs. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Even got a spam can of ammo for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:03 am

My bad. lol
Im getting old you know.
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:32 am

My machine shop is split up between the basement and the garage, got too damned hot outside this past summer and too cold now to be out there and too lazy to keep a fire going in the woodstove unless I have too, so I have what I use the most downstairs.

If you like that click, I recommend you shoot the M39 first, you'll forget all about that little "click"...
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:33 am

Oh, and always make sure there's nothing flammable for about...oh... 8 foot or so in front of you too when you shoot! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:34 pm

Mo, Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I do plan on shooting the Finn first, and there's a nice indoor range nearby for exactly that. You mentioned flammable issues, which I assume refers to flames shooting out of the far end of the tube. I actually have a serious question about gasses. The firing pin is about .092" OD, and the firing pin hole plug gages to .102" ID. That's .010" clearance, which, from everything I've read, is too great. The previous owner is a very experienced and reputable guy, and he has no problem with the way the gun works now. But the books and videos and websites urge people to go for a clearance of about .001" to .002" tops. Even down to .0005", or as we say in machine shop world, a honeymoon fit. I have the machines and shop to either bush down the hole or retip to a larger diameter to tighten things up. But my question is, is .010" a normal tolerance for the Mosins? I know they were cranking these things out pretty fast, and didn't hold to really tight tolerances, but what can you tell me about this issue?

BTW, my machine shop is in an unheated barn too, and I keep a bench in my nice warm cellar for hand work. I've seen the infrared systems in some shops that will keep people warm without spending to heat the ambient air, but they are pricey. Maybe someday, but for now I bundle up and plan efficiently. Thanks, and any thoughts are appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:12 pm

I dont think I fully understand what your lookin at/measuring.

Are you talking about the gauge tool that comes with your mosin that measures firing pin protrusion?
Are you saying your pin protrudes .092" and your max protrusion notch on your gauge measures .102"?
If so, your protrusion is safe. But your gauge is out of spec.

IIRC (I cant find mine Crying or Very sad ) the gauge is (first notch) .075" and (second notch) .095". Any amount of protrusion between those numbers is safe. I turned mine out 1 turn beyond .095 and sanded it back to .090 protrusion.

Ive shot alot of surp ammo, and ive had a few that had 'deep' primers
and wouldnt go off with one hit. So I try to set up with max protrusion
anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:33 pm

Silver, I'm not refering to protrusion, which is what that guage tool with the notches checks for. I'm talking about A) the diameter of the firing pin tip and B) the diameter of the firing pin hole in the bolt face thru which said tip jumps to hit the primer. Too much clearance and you wind up with gasses blowing back into the bolt and action. Reading up on this in the tech and gunsmithing lit shows a firm urging to keep the clearance to a minimum. So according to the conventional wisdom, a firing pin tip diameter of .092" should really go thru a hole of, say, .093" to .094". But the Mosins I've looked at all have considerably greater clearance. The clearance in mine is .010". I haven't fired the gun yet but I know it's safe as per my knowledgable friend. I'm just storing up dimensions and methods for when I start hacking away at the innards. I will only be shooting modern non-corrosive ammo, and I'll settle on one brand and stick with it. That should keep the protrusion issue from haunting the gun. Thanks, and sorry for any confusion I caused. Of course, me apologizing for causing confusion is like me apologizing for breathing. It just happens.
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:50 am

No apology necc. I didnt understand cause thats something I dont even look at. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] But maybe I should. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I dont think you should have gas's blowing back at you. And if you do, a couple hundredths of an inch between a firing pin floating on a spring and the bolt head is the least of your worries imo?

I would figure keeping the pin to the maximum usable dia would be good simply because a smaller dia pin will be more prone to piercing primers.

Do these gun always have gas that blows back, and a tight fit between the pin and head prevent this?
Im still cornfused...
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:48 pm

Silver, You are right in that the gun hasn't shown any signs of gas-blowback problems. I'm just interested in the topic for reference when I get into the restoration stage. Since my interest is in the work of gunsmithing, I will probably be noodling around with dimensions and issues that a real shooter would just leave well enough alone. I was hoping someone might know if the pin-to-hole tolerances I'm noticing are normal for Mosins. If they all are a loose fit (in excess of about .002" slop) then the entire Imperial Russian Army would stand as a pretty good testament to the adequate functioning of the Mosin-Nagant rifle.

The American Gunsmithing Institute has various videos in which they say that the maximum recommended diameter of a high pressure rifle (>45Kpsi) firing pin should be around .070". My Mosin's pin is .092", so I'm not too worried about pierced primers. Also, I'm not sure if the AGI videos were referring just to modern rifles, or to these older military rifles as well.

This thread seems to have morphed from a hi-y'all thread to a gun tech thread. I don't know how to move it over there, other than to start over. I'm way too lazy for such an undertaking. Thanks for being interested.
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:50 pm

eh... no biggie. Just start you another thread if you want. Or I can move this one. But I understand now. Im the same way when it comes to some things. 99% of the time, it might not matter to 100% of the people. But for me, it might. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] If its worth doin, its worth over doin. study Thats my philosophy.
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:01 pm

So what'r ya sayin here ST? That if it's worth doing it's worth doing more than once? Well, I guess that makes your wife happy anyway.... Embarassed [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] What a Face [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:20 pm

I just looked at my pin fitment and with no way to measure it precisely without taking it apart I will say it has less than .005 of slop. Barely any discernible movement to the naked eye under very bright light. As for the diameter of the pin? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I can't find my cheapo calipers right now. They're here in the living room someplace though, I know that much. Surprised
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:02 pm

Actually thats not my philosophy. Thats what my friends say my philosophy is. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Just found this site, have two Mosins, and wanted to warn everyone.   Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:44 am

You'll never see gas blowback unless your firing pin is set way too far out. I set mine at just a tad past the minimum just in case I might run into a hard primer, so far so good.
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