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 Sabots in a Mosin?

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Zeiss Ikon



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PostSubject: Sabots in a Mosin?   Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:09 pm

Sort of the opposite of low-noise, low-recoil loads, I suppose -- but I see a couple suppliers selling sabots similar to the ones used in Remington XLerator rounds, allowing firing .224 bullets in (they say) any .308 bore rifle (they include pretty sketchy load data for everything from .30 Carbine up to 300 Weatherby Mag). Apparently a .308 will easily reach 4000 fps, implying that a 7.62x54r ought to be able to get there as well (especially from a long barrel). Less recoil than a full hunting load with 180-200 grain bullets, naturally, but I'd guess they're pretty noisy.

Now, I'd ASSume that the .308 nylon sabot would upset enough to give a usable seal in a .311-.312 bore -- has anyone actually tried it? Failing that out of the box, I'd bet making a drill dimple in the back end of the sabot would let it expand like a Minie ball, assuming you could avoid weakening it enough to perforate behind the bullet (potentially hazardous, as the sabot might then stick in the bore).
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Josh of Smith-Sights

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PostSubject: Re: Sabots in a Mosin?   Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:11 am

Hello,

I've not tried it, but I think it would be interesting.

The faster 1:9.5 twist of the Mosin would likely work better than in the slower .30 caliber twists.

Regards,

Josh
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Zeiss Ikon



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PostSubject: Re: Sabots in a Mosin?   Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:42 pm

At 4000 ft/s, I don't know that a 9.5 twist is even needed; if a 9 inch twist in an AR will stabilize an 80 grain bullet at 2800 ft/s, then you should only need a 12 inch twist to stabilize the same bullet at 4000.

Not likely to matter to me any time soon, though -- I realized after posting (almost nine months ago) that the sabots alone cost fifteen cents a shot, on top of the cost of a .224 jacketed bullet (and a fairly heavy load of powder, else why bother compared to just shooting light bullets in groove diameter); I can buy surplus ammo for barely more than the price of the sabots, never mind bullets, primer, and powder. An additional down side, for me, is that there doesn't seem to be anywhere in or near North Carolina where that kind of load would be appropriate -- varmint shooting here seems to mean popping a coyote while in your stand waiting for deer to come to your corn feeder. If I want to shoot beyond 200 meters, I'm better off with loads similar to surplus (i.e. low drag bullet at around 3000 ft/s); by the time the bullet has traveled 200-250 meters, it's faster than that little bitty one (because heavier bullets hold their speed better) -- and inside 200 meters, the heavier bullet will probably be more accurate even if the little one gets there first.
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SilverTip
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PostSubject: Re: Sabots in a Mosin?   Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:00 pm

scratchhead You got a link to these sabots Z?

Sounds like a good way to kill off some of these 6.8spc's I got layin around.

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Zeiss Ikon



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PostSubject: Re: Sabots in a Mosin?   Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:30 pm

SilverTip wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] You got a link to these sabots Z?

Here is is...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Josh of Smith-Sights

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PostSubject: Re: Sabots in a Mosin?   Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:21 am

Hello,

They have some for the 7.62x39. Those are the ones I'd use; they're the proper size.

Reloading data is something else.

Josh
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Zeiss Ikon



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PostSubject: Re: Sabots in a Mosin?   Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:09 pm

Josh of Smith-Sights wrote:
Hello,

They have some for the 7.62x39. Those are the ones I'd use; they're the proper size.

Reloading data is something else.

Josh

'Doh!! I've looked at that page half a dozen times, and I'd have sworn they were selling the same sabots for 7.62x39 and .303 as for .308, .30 Carbine, and .300 Win Mag (the .303 load data seems to have vanished). The price per sabot has come down a little, too -- still a dime a pop in small quantities, but that's almost within reach. Seems to me we could start our 7.62.54R from starter loads for .308; the case capacity is very similar and muzzle velocity/energy of factory loads with similar bullets is almost identical (no, that doesn't mean we can just copy/paste .308 loads for our cartridge, just that starter loads for one ought to be safe in the other with the same weight and type bullet). Their calculations show that 55,000 psi (the limit I've read for the Mosin action) should get well over 4000 ft/s even in a 20 inch barrel; they'll likely get faster yet in the long barrel of a 91/30, especially with a full-case load of slower powder.

Makes me wish there was proper varmint shooting to be had in North Carolina...
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i_love_mosins



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PostSubject: Re: Sabots in a Mosin?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:35 pm

I'm gonna give these a try!
I load lots of sabots with 500 S&W Mag (for rifle), this shouldn't be any different, right? I was hoping to do some kind of SLAP load with the 500 but there wasn't enough twist to stabilize a 30 cal bullet. Sabots in my experience are very low friction, shouldn't really have any problems, load data doesn't change very much.
According to the miller formula the Mosin has enough twist to stabilize a 1.05" long bullet at 4000 fps. Which would be something like a Sierra 77 gr HPBT. the BC of that bullet isn't bad, but it'll loose velocity pretty quick from 4000 fps.
I think a bigger bullet like a .243 or 6.5mm would get better results.

if just going for varmint loads with 55gr or 62 gr bullets i think there might be a bit too much twist and you'll see a bit of bullet 'wobble' when tested on a paper target. wobbling bullets looses energy faster, and do not perform correctly on impact.

according to the miller formula, you need less twist as velocity goes up.
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SilverTip
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PostSubject: Re: Sabots in a Mosin?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:52 pm

Excellent info thanks! What rifle do you shoot those 500's out of?

i_love_mosins wrote:
I'm gonna give these a try!
I load lots of sabots with 500 S&W Mag (for rifle), this shouldn't be any different, right? I was hoping to do some kind of SLAP load with the 500 but there wasn't enough twist to stabilize a 30 cal bullet. Sabots in my experience are very low friction, shouldn't really have any problems, load data doesn't change very much.
According to the miller formula the Mosin has enough twist to stabilize a 1.05" long bullet at 4000 fps. Which would be something like a Sierra 77 gr HPBT. the BC of that bullet isn't bad, but it'll loose velocity pretty quick from 4000 fps.
I think a bigger bullet like a .243 or 6.5mm would get better results.

if just going for varmint loads with 55gr or 62 gr bullets i think there might be a bit too much twist and you'll see a bit of bullet 'wobble' when tested on a paper target. wobbling bullets looses energy faster, and do not perform correctly on impact.

according to the miller formula, you need less twist as velocity goes up.
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